“rapture” argument with rapturists brother, OK Bro. I will NOT make argument with you please don’t boast to mach it’s a bit silly, nothing you could say would offend me, “discussion is an exchange of knowledge, argument is an exchange of ignorance” let us just exchange knowledge only and forget the ridiculous logic, I will just give you the truth from the word of God, for all they that take the sword[word] shall perish with the sword[word], As rapturists you use the term “rapture” first of all the word “rapture” is not found in the scripture. Rapture is taken from the Latin root word rapio which means [to seize, to take by force] it’s supposedly the root of the English word, “rape.” The Greek word [ harpazo] is translated “caught up” in the KJV [Authorized Version] and “snatched away” in the [Concordant Version]. As “rapture” is in popular usage with reference to “caught up” and “snatched away” in I Thes. 4.
Let us see where this weed word originated planted in church, The word become poplar in the church after the book published by [Manuel de lacunza ydiaz [1812] “The coming of messiah in glory and majesty’ and translated to English by Edward Irving [1827]] ‘The term Rapture’ first appeared on the English scene back in the 1740’s through a book by Morgan Edwards [1722-1795]. He came to the USA in [1762] and it was in [1788] that he published another book in the States. Following Morgan Edwards this teaching was resurrected by Emanuel Lacunza around [1812] and again brought to the fore through [ J.N. Darby] who used the details of a vision that Margaret McDonald had in [1829] in Port Glasgow, Scotland. Robert Norton MD carefully preserved Margaret MacDonald’s vision in note form. Later Darby came by and used such notes to elaborate on this ‘rapture theory’. Edward Irving added some of his own ideas and ‘this new doctrine’ was spread mostly through the [Brethren Movement] later incorporated in the notes of [Dr. C.I. Scofield] and then printed as footnotes in his bible.
1 THESS 4:17 This is the central verse for rapture believers, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [together with them in the clouds] to meet the Lord in the air, so shall we ever be with the Lord., OK Are we not with Him right now? Answer = yes as an individual believer. However this refers to being fully one with the overcomers in the clouds
The Lord Jesus Christ has given all His people the power to sit with Him in heavenly places[spirit realm] far above all principality and powers “Eph 2/6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:” We are already c-a-u-g-h-t u-p in Him , Now it remains for us to yield to the indwelling Holy Spirit so that which has been given can now become a reality in our daily walk. Let us avoid foolish guessing, enough of this ridiculous logic which will always incite argument. We are a part of God’s glorious victorious plan of the ages and, being Son’s of God and being Love , He cannot fail . . . not even with one person!
Let me share this marvellous word from a brother Ray his wife Sheila writhing:
“THE LORD DESCENDED IN A CLOUD When God wanted to be with His people, He, being Spirit, came down to man’s realm in a cloud. The people could see the cloud but God remained invisible. He was not tangible yet He was right there for His voice could be heard. (Exodus 34:5). The cloud showed forth His Presence with and for His people. Out of that cloud He communed with Moses.
CLOUD IN HOUSE, Later God comand Solomon to build the temple wherein He would dwell. (2 Chron 5:13). It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endures for ever: that then THE HOUSE WAS FILLED WITH A CLOUD, even the house of the LORD. So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of THE CLOUD: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God (2 Chron 5:14 ). The Sovereign Spirit-God filled His Temple visibly but not tangibly. The power of His presence affected all the priests . . . God Almighty was present and He only was preeminent. His glory filled this temple. This pattern was for us today for we are the temple of the Holy Spirit-God and He is filling us with His glory.
JESUS ASCENDED INTO A CLOUD Jesus went back into His Father . . . He went from the natural realm back into the realm of spirit. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and A CLOUD received him out of their sight (Acts 1:9). This cloud just had to be the presence and glory of God, Himself. Father was receiving His son back into His glory which Jesus had laid aside for a season to accomplish the purposes of God. He left in a cloud and now He is coming forth in all His fullness in the many clouds of His perfected overcomers, His witnesses, as earth’s saints are caught up to be one with Him and them.
A GREAT CLOUD OF WITNESSES The background for this picture was the Olympic Stadium with the bleachers surrounding the running track in the middle. The perimeter at the top had busts of previous champions who were there to encourage the current runners on to greater achievements. Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great A CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1).
HOW DOES HE COME?, Jude 14, quoting Enoch of old says, Behold the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints. The original Greek text declares that He comes IN MYRIADS OF HIMSELF. He in all the overcomers make up this glorious cloud.
HE COMES IN A CLOUD, Christ comes in a cloud to reverse the way of His leaving for He ascended in a cloud. Luke 21:27 …And then shall they see the Son of man COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory . In the natural it is very hard to see anything or anyone if they are IN a cloud! When Jesus ascended after His resurrection, a cloud received Him out of the sight of the witnesses. This cloud has within itself power and great glory … thus it is not an ordinary cloud! God said that He would not share His glory with another! Yes, but we are not another for we are His body in the earth and you cannot get closer to someone than that! We are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh.
HE COMES WITH CLOUDS, Revelation 1:7, Behold, HE COMES WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him. So far we see He comes in a cloud and now, describing the same event, it is with clouds. Thus we need to overlap ‘cloud’ with ‘clouds’. There is one cloud made up of a corporate cloud of witnesses wherein dwells the fullness of Christ. Daniel of old saw this scene clearly. He saw the one like unto the son of man come with clouds of heaven with power and great glory (Daniel 7:13-14). This ‘one’ was just LIKE Jesus, the Pattern Son of Man.
CAUGHT UP WITH THE OTHERS IN THE CLOUDS, Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord (1 Thess 4:17) Now we see that there are already some saints in the clouds or else we could not join them! As we become fully and experientially joined into Christ — for He is changing us from glory to glory into His image — we shall be ‘on the same wavelength’ as those who have gone before and come forth fully in the spirit life of Father..
CLOUDS WITHOUT WATER! By contrast many saints through the years have failed to move with the cloud of God’s presence and leading and so they only had withered messages and limited testimonies severed from the life-giving source of reality. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: CLOUDS THEY ARE WITHOUT WATER, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots (Jude 12). These dry vessels — ‘clouds without water’ — know nothing of the three feasts of joy which Father-God has purposed for them as the pattern for His people by which heaven’s will is accomplished in our earth.
So folks, don’t be looking for Christ to come forth in natural clouds, but rather know that we are being changed to become a part of that cloud of witnesses in full experiential union with Him.”